A friend called me rather randomly today to ask if the state of Minnesota could secede from the U.S. It was just an off the cuff example, prompted by the realization that the U.S. has “colonies” like Saipan that some of us never knew existed (until our friend announced she was going to teach there). That prompted some speculation and eventually ended with the secession question.
It’s a fun little question, especially given our preference for freedom. If a state wants to secede, and democratically votes to do so, why shouldn’t they be able to? It seems to go along with our spreading of freedom abroad.
My initial guess was that secession wouldn’t fly. That’s part of what prompted the Civil War (among other things). Wikipedia backs me up, noting that Congress passed a law making it illegal for a state to secede. Which sounds kind of silly, if you think about it.
I realize the reasons for not wanting a state to secede. You want to keep the nation together. But isn’t it somewhat against our national character, our focus on freedom and all that, to not allow a state to jump ship if they want to?
At any rate, it’s fun speculation. The Wikipedia entry includes some details about failed secessions over the years, including states in the northeast, South Carolina, the obvious Civil War, Texas seceding from Mexico (so we’ll take a seceding state, but we won’t let our states secede?) and speculation about the Upper Peninsula of Michigan seceding from Michigan and becoming it’s own state (Ha! They could rival Wyoming for lowest everything [actually, such an act would make the Upper Peninsula the state with the smallest population by quite a margin: 328,000 in the U.P., 509,000 in Wyoming]. Plus I think there’s something in the Constitution about not taking land away from any state. Update: OK, I guess you can do it with approval from both state’s legislatures and Congress.) It’s also fun to note that Michigan traded Toledo for the U.P., which I think was a pretty good deal for my old home state.
- Read my review of Confederates in the Attic: Dispatches from the Unfinished Civil War.
48 thoughts on “Can a State Secede from the U.S.?”
Regarding secession of a state, there is a theory about how Texas could “secede” from the United States. In the agreement with the U.S. when it became a state Texas has the right, through a vote, to divide into five separate states. It’s theorized that if this was to happen it would be challenged in the courts by the U. S., making it to the Supreme Court. It’s then theorized that they would not allow Texas to become five states, because it would give them so many seats in the Senate (ten versus two). Therefore the Supreme Court would have to deny this, which would then nullify and void the agreement that brought Texas into the union. This would allow Texas a separate nation.
In line with amusing ourselves, this secession game seems fitting at this time of financial crisis.
Our government is in a great deal more trouble financially than those many businesses that they are bailing out, and the hundreds of thousands of homeowners that took mortgages they couldn’t afford.
It’s pouring thousands… (no, make that hundreds of thousands…no, make that millions…biliions?… say what, TRILLIONS!?!!?!…) into bailing out every business but the corner store, and I don’t think my great grandkids are going to want to pay for that. Come to think of it, neither do I, nor do most Americans.
So we ALL secede, leaving Washington D C to pay for the mess that they created.
Then we turn around and start The New United States of America…I think I’m onto something here…
My thoughts exactly! Why don’t the red states secede from the blue states? How can they stop us, if there are more of us than of them…I’m dead serious. This economic thing gets worse by the day. The red states, where people still believe in work and free enterprise, can survive nicely without the socialist outposts on both coasts. They, on the other hand, will starve without our input. I happen to live in the state that you could “put a wall around and it would be self-sufficient”.
We could set up an “exchange citizen program”, if conservative people in blue states wanted to come over to our side and
liberals in red states wanted to go to blue
states…sort of like exchange students.
Let California and New York have their illegals and welfare states…let the labor
unions have Michigan and Illinois…let them
commit extinct-icide with their abortion and
homosexuality. We just need to keep the Gulf of Mexico so we can get our new-found
prosperity out to the rest of the world.
And you know that, most of the Red States pay less Federal Tax than they receive, right?
Please stop talking about “socialism” until your dirt-poor state stop receiving federal money, idiot.
You’re the idiot “am”.
Secession is a viable option for any state and, even, any person in the USA. People don’t “need” federal money, they think they do. People don’t need big government, they think they do. People forgot how to be self-sufficient, and people got lazy. Before the 16th ammendment, each state of the Union was prosperous without federal money coming in, and NO federal tax except on imports and exports. People are freaking out about lost jobs and that they must make this green fake fiat money to survive but all you need to do is put a roof over your head with some trees, sow some seeds, and pick a trade. Our country is so full of resources, you could nearly wall off each one and people would do just fine and be in better shape.
I would think everyone would benefit from seceding from the federal government, which has grown bloated, unrestrained, inhumane, and out of control.
Probably the only way we can prevent the impending one world government is by several states seceding from the US after everyone wakes up and realizes how ridiculous the entire system is and how the media has been selling their lies for decades.
There is no excuse for any of this global crisis-human ingenuity has created advanced technology, everyone’s standard of living ought to be higher than it’s ever been. Government is the problem, not the answer, and the only reason it exists is to ensure you have nothing and to keep everyone divided while they all meet in their secret societies and laugh at how stupid the peasantry is.
This from the Montana Constitution which overides the US Constitution.
Section 2. Self-government. The people have the exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent state. They may alter or abolish the constitution and form of government whenever they deem it necessary.
When Texas became a state of the Union it had in its charter the right to secede from the Union and the right to fly the Texas state flag at the same level as the American flag!
Whichever State or States finally secede, I’m moving there!
The States need to wise-up and refuse to send any more money to the Feds; demand and enforce their sovereignty. If that means official secession, then go for it. The Federal government we have now is run by criminals and needs to be shut down by any means. The best way to do that is to deny them money, which is a synonym for power. Without that, they’re dry up and die.
Of course, it looks to me like the Feds are destroying themselves without our intervention. What will hurt for us, is reclaiming personal independence and the habit of self-sufficiency which has been hammered out of our “citizens” by the public school system and laws, rules, regulations, etc that thwart every attempt at being self-sustaining, both as an individual and a State.
I find this a disturbing question as it appears that what passes for “secession” from nations worldwide, eg Bosnia, Darfur, Kosovo, East Timor, to name just a few is a process that is being set up worldwide as a means of attacking and destroying nations worldwide, often accompanied by militia wars. What IS notable is that after these regions have “seceded” they are militarily occupied and the economic benefit and resource control is gained by Japan and Germany. This pattern is also being seen in Iraq, which is splintering into three states, Shia, Sunni and Kurd “seceding from” (and destroying) Iraq. Japan and Germany have both recently signed major economic agreements with Iraq for their oil resources. This is a pattern being seen worldwide and the US is no exception as Japan and Germany increase their economic control and domination in the US.
I fully support having the “Red States” secede. They are the biggest welfare leeches in the country, the least educated, and the most eager to go to war.
Most of the new wealth & innovation is created in the Blue States. California – which you ignorantly deride as too liberal, or whatever new epithet is being spoonfed to you via FoxNews or your subscription to Wingnut Weekly – California, alone, has probably created more new technology, new jobs, and advancements in knowledge in general than every Red State combined.
Good riddance, you inbred 19th century anti-science, anti-intellect, ‘intelligent design’ promoting, war-mongering moochers!
The only thing that worries me is that once “yall” realize how crappy your 3rd rate race-to-the-bottom experiment is, and how quickly your uneducated masses get plowed over when they have to attempt to hold their own in the global economy without *ANY* cash from the civilized half of America – not even for military bases or military hardware factories – “yall” will probably do the only thing your dimwitted little minds can think of to find meaning in your lives as well as release your anger & frustration over your sorry left-behind lives, and find some excuse to make war against the Blue States. Which means I’d probably die with my 12 gauge in hand pumping some 00 buckshot in your inbred @sses trying to keep you thieves at bay.
Where has the “United” in United States of America gone?
Are some people upset because a “N” is in the white house? Shouldn’t we suport our president that was democratically elected? He has been in the job for just a few months. Give him time! Bush was there for eight (8) years…and he and his administration were major contributors to all this mess. Let President Obama try to help us…Bush and his cronies never wanted to help us.
P.S. Those who think Fox News is “Fair and Balanced” need serious mental help!
You poor misguided Liberals. Btw, “Neo,” you talk about CA as if it’s the most progressive and prosperous state there is. Hello! The state has gone bankrupt and everybody’s moving to Texas which actually is prosperous. If there’s progress and prosperity in that, it’s for Texas.
And Vic, just because Obama was elected democratically (by a bunch of idiots), does that mean we should obey and support his every ridiculous move? Oh, and of course you’d turn this into a racial thing (rolling eyes) – the Liberals’ great excuse. Never mind that Obama’s throwing all our money down the drain and he keeps borrowing and borrowing money that we don’t have. Or that he makes up his own rules as he goes along and completely ignores the Constitution. If he’s not a fascist dictator, he’s pretty d-mn close! Our country’s going bankrupt, and it’s going to hell. I hope some of the Conservative States do secede. I’ll be right there with ’em. You Liberals can have your immorality and your taxes and your socialism. Good luck with that!
Btw, if Fox News isn’t “fair and balanced” they at least give us equal time, since the Left-wing Media machine is completely biased, out of touch and out of control, just like the President they got voted into the White House.
Whether secession is legal or not should not be the question. I don’t think anyone has considered the long term disadvantages are. All federal support would be gone. Those federal military installations would be moved to other states. Any federal agenecies :ATF, FBI, etc. would not be around to help with new country over run with criminals and militia who would fight over control of a new country. If banks and companies start to fail due to rising prices because they are now the only game in town, people could start to lose their money, that would no longer be insured by the FDIC (FEDERAL DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORPORATION). If you hate big government now, inside of six months Texas would be reduced to some form of martial law.
Wow has someone got the wrong idea of California as some great blue savior of liberlism.
We are taxed to death our rights are being eroded at an estounding pace, we are ruled by the most assinine multigenerational dynastic F*^%ups that ever ran for office.
Yes we have a large budget that year after year is in the red our schools are at the bottom of the list, our crime is through the roof.
And don’t even try to blame it on conservatives this state has been a blue state since reagan left office.
There’s plenty of money going into the coffers it’s being wasted on projects that have zero ROI (return on investment) the uber liberal teachers union complain because they must make due with a 60k yr job and you can’t blow your nose without a environmental study and who knows how many special interest groups agreeing it’s ok.
California is one of the states where our Government is argueably worst the the fedral government.
And before you lable me a republican backlashing on Obama, I’m a libertarian and voted for him.
If they did seceed I would move to Texas. Our federal and local governments have failed us one too many times.
It’s time for us to seriously think about breaking up the union, in an amicable way, of courese. Let’s quit fighting and let’s quit denying half of the country to be led by people that do NOT represent their views.
Everything the Obama admin is doing these days is contrary to half the country…that’s not government by the people, for the people, that’s government for half the people.
Just a matter of time before this all happens.
bTW..NEO…I’m a business owner who use to be based in SoCAl for many years.
We moved our entire business out of California because of the outrageous taxes and dysfuntional local and state governmnet. 90% of my employees elected to relocate in a totally new state. What does that say for California?
If it weren’t for the sunshine and beaches, no one would EVER live there,
In all of this talk of secession, where is your national pride and patriotism? Our United States of America have survived all of these years, because we are one nation and we all love our country. The secessionists who claim to love America are talking treason and
anarchy. This truly ridiculous!!!
I think any state that can have a vote with a result of at least 80% of the people in favor of seceding then they should be allowed to secede. I think it’s a little harsh but the way we are going it may very well happen. Look what too much diversity did to the Roman Empire.
What bothers me the most about these left wing nuts and most of the other people that voted Obama into office is the following:
Obama told us that he wasn’t going to raise taxes and he also told us that he wasn’t going to raise the National debt. He promised this in order to get elected. So far he has raised taxes for the rich (which doesn’t bother most of us but it should because we will be next) and he has spent more money in his first six weeks than any other president has spent in their entire terms.
Basically the man lied to the American people but yet everyone that helped vote his butt in there is still standing behind him! Why? I usually vote Republican myself and if John MaCain would have won and had done the same thing that Obama has done I certainly wouldn’t be standing behind the liar! I don’t care how many times he used the word “change”.
And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
What just one President can do for America
to NeoConsAreLiars: you assume the capitlistic BUSINESSES would remain in the union? thats pretty naive…since most of our manufacting is sent over seas for cheaper labor to come back under free trade..Not to mention the reduced operating tax rates and less FEDERAL INTERFERENCE. Hypothetically…if Texas seceded…80% of whats left of manufacturing in the U.S. would relocate there…and quickly…so where did those great jobs and innovation go? Surely a “new” texas would have more incentives to attract them than just the 2 examples previously stated…but..you’ll still have your Starbucks.
There are several states that could secede. They have all the resources to function independently.
States should be allowed to secede! Leave them alone.
The basic requirements for a state to secede and be able to continue on they’re own are the following:
natural resource (oil farmland, wood, etc.)
deep-water ports (oceanic trade)
a border shared with another nation. (over land trade)
So basically any state that is in the middle of the United States would be pretty much screwed because they wouldn’t be able to properly trade since the US would seal them off from the outside world and basically muscle them into rejoining.
In the end, the only state that could get away with it and succeed would be Texas. They have oil fields, they have farm land, they even have deep-water ports in the Gulf of Mexico. After that other states that share a border with Texas could do the same but not before due to how much difficulty that would be encountered with get goods and services to where they would be needed.
One thing is for sure though, If this were to happen, the industry would jump there because of the changes to the taxing rules. (this was stated earlier.) So would I be there if/when Texas starts the chain reaction? guaranteed. I’d be there now if I could.
Cali is basically bankrupt. That has to be the worst off state in the Union. Scary thing is Obama wants to use their business model for the rest of the country. Us”inbred 19th century anti-science, anti-intellect, ‘intelligent design’ promoting, war-mongering moochers” as you so eloquently put it will survive centuries longer than your “advanced society”. If we were self governed those non-tax paying losers would certainly shape up or ship out. We don’t condone that behavior, we unfortunatly have to deal with it because of your liberal government policies.
BTW. Don’t think about protecting yourself with that shotgun. Your government will be making sure you don’t have one.
Very interesting line of discussion. I will have to do more contitutional research, but it seems to me there is another answer. If a movement of libertarian-types were to lead the Republicans back to power in the House and Senate, could they not simply de-fund all of the areas of the Federal government deemed to be a waste? Such as most of the departments (Education, Commerce, Energy etc.); such as any program that is deemed to be extra-constitutional? Such as…good grief, there are too many to list, but you all know what I mean.
I pay a way too much in Federal, State, and local taxes, sales taxes, use fees, and on and on and on (pity me-I live in California). What do I get in return? Not much. My ROI (Return On “Investment”) is in the negative. I cannot think of one service provided to me by any level of government that is a benefit to my life.
It is no coincedence that the subject of secession is attracting more and more people. For years the conservative majority has allowed liberal courts and lawmakers (supported by a relatively small minority in the most populous urban areas) to slowly push the US toward a liberal (socialist) society. It all began in the courts when judges began to legislate from the bench. Because of the sheer audacity of the current president in his campaign to bankrupt the country in order for everyone to become dependent on the government, people are becoming alarmed. The country is waking up and realizing we have been quiet for too long. Watch closely as cries for secession become louder and louder. While I do not know how realistic secession would be, the argument would at least raise public awareness for the millions who are sick and tired of big government and socialist views. The time to act is now. We have been quiet for too long.
Hi as it is such a good topic; A state would never be allowed to secede coz if one goes – they will all go cept the ones that are poor you would be left with a demographically balkanised continent & a much diminished USA. Secondly the bosses want more control over humanity & our individual lives not less (Marxism). Freedom was always something that had to be fought over. Why do we think things are otherwise ok right now? We do the work & they take & use our money to further their grip & hegemony over the world. They call it foreign aid.
No state can secede without its own people’s majority approval and the majority approval of the US congress. Neither one is ever going to happen because all parties realize the dire economic, judicial and other consequences. No state can survive as an independent nation in the modern global reality, coining its own currency, growing its own food (such that it could) unless you want to live in chaos and a barter economy. The exiting state would somehow have to “settle up” with the USA regarding federal properties, assets, judicial facilities, security facilities, etc. If for instance Texas “leaves”, I’d want everything paid for by my federal taxes to be refunded/credited back to the federal government — and you all know that that list is practically endless. Some wingnut Texans “hate” the “marxist socialist elitist homo” USA but they love US dollars from US taxpayers for their roads, bridges, universities, ports, security, parks, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and every other form of milk from the USA TEAT. Let’s see what free-market value would be placed on a Republic of Texas Dollar (or peso?) currency printed in, say, Houston. Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing a big fence around Texas, with strict USA Customs and immigration crossing points into the USA. In the end, independent Texans would beg for US foreign aid. But the biggest reason they would never secede is that they’d have to set up their own Texas Football League and they’d only play one game — between the Cowboys and the Texans – the Texas Superbowl, and the Rockets and the Mavs would be on their own.
Secession is an interesting topic, but mostly a waste of time. Things that can be done: establish term limits in House and Senate; require everyone to pay taxes and therefore take ownership of federal and state budgets and initiatives; require minimum competancy test in order to vote; establish a formal job description for the Office of President with minimal equirements to reflect the seriousness of the position.
The real threat of Secession may be the only way to get things changed in this country.
term limits and the weakening of the US gov’t by eliminating worthless organizations like the FCC which truly is communism at work.
The US derides leaders like Chavez and Putin for controlling the media but we’ve been doing it for years letting big biz control what we see and hear.
How many hospitals and schools could we build and run with the billions that we spend on truly worthless agency. I’d love to hear an argument for the FCC
It is not a matter of seceding that is required. What needs to be done is to take away the vote of people who have no stake in the matters at hand. Example, if you ask your 3 children what they want to eat, and put it to a family vote, healthy food or junk food, yourself and your spouse will always be out voted and you’ll always eat junk food. The same goes for what is going on in america today. Too many people who pay no taxes are voting for free handouts and higher taxes. Until this problem is solved our problems will continue to grow. I often hear that the only way to get us back on track is through gun powder. Another false answer because there is no one to fight but our own. A melting pot indeed… But if you do not have a stake – you should not vote.
The states ability to secede from the union is one of the fundamental freedoms we have to be willing to die for. The states are duty bound to stand between the federal government and its citizens, if it deems that the Feds are passing unconstitutional laws. It is the last line of defense of liberty. Do your homework people, freedom isnt free.
“Wikipedia backs me up, noting that Congress passed a law making it illegal for a state to secede.”
No, really didn’t; if they did, then this would mean that it was LEGAL to secede before that– and hence perpetuity was DICTATED to the states rather than accepted democractically, making the USA a DICTATORSHIP by definition.
The federal government’s claims were purely trumped up by the Northern majority, in order to claim power by force where it did not exist in law.
And therefore, the USA has been a dictatorship ever since.
“Secession is an interesting topic, but mostly a waste of time.”
NO, it is not. States CAN secede, since the federal government will have not be able to cite any basis to STOP them; unlike in 1861, they won’t be able to simply TRUMP UP authority, like Lincoln did by pulling laws out of his ass. Even in Iran, we saw what happened when a dictator tried to assume power illegally: he got exposed on the internet, twitter, i-phones etc.
So it would be even worse for the American federal government, if they tried to exercise illegal force like Lincoln did; they could no longer censor the media in order to control public opinion.
Lincoln LIED about law and history in order to use force to stop secession; that won’t be the case today.
“No state can secede without its own people’s majority approval and the majority approval of the US congress.”
False. No law precludes any state from seceding from the U.S., just like no law precludes any state from seceding from the U.N.
Lincoln and Jackon had their own versions of American history, which bore absolutely resemblance to the actual in terms of national authority.
In reality, every state was recognized as free, sovreign and independent– i.e. a FULL NATION UNTO ITSEL– in 1783; and this never changed, except in the minds of the ignorant.
I believe that Every state should secede from the national government and/or create a new partial government based off the current constitution. The “U.S. Government”(now incorporated), has become just the title of a circus put on by the fed with overpaid actors who pretend to have an opinion. The tangled web of conglomerating corporations are weaved so tight you lose track of who owns who. I honestly don’t know why there aren’t riots we are slaves to this concrete jungle. They own everything and we just run their mazes like a money machine. And now they are keeping track of us more now than ever. We as people have the need to evolve with the technology and information at the tips of our fingers. America needs to set an example and what our government has been doing since WWII has been anything but what we set out for in days of true patriots.
$20 TRILLION dollars is owed to everybody but our government. However there is only $575 billion US currency in circulation; a little more than 1/35 of our national debt. WE..ARE..SCREWED.. and its our fault for allowing this to go on for so long.
To those of you who have labeled the United States of America as a nation, you are wrong. A nation is is a group of people who share culture, ethnicity and language. Although there is a vague mass culture, people still follow traditions that their ancestors brought with them to the “New World.” Furthermore, America is made up of many different ethnicities,(by the way, neither white nor black are ethnicities; examples of ethnicity would be German or English), and, contrary to common belief, the United States has no official language. To those of you who may argue against the last point, check almost any product you purchase in a store and on its packaging you will most likely find Spanish on it, a product not destined for foreign markets but the American one. Why would a country that has English, excuse me, American-English as its official language label its products in various tongues?
No state or citizen may secede. End of story. Don’t believe it? Give it a try. A citizen of the U.S. can’t even voluntarily give up said citizenship. Once again, give it a try. Constitution? Supreme Court defines what it means and when it means and where it means, end of story. Average joe blow does NOT define constitution, but they have free speech to argue or debate it. With no legal standing so it is just talk. Enjoy tomorrow and the day after that and all the days after that. I do.
“My initial guess was that secession wouldn’t fly. That’s part of what prompted the Civil War (among other things). Wikipedia backs me up, noting that Congress passed a law making it illegal for a state to secede. Which sounds kind of silly, if you think about it.”
That’s like saying the Third Reich was “kind of silly.”
Jefferson and Madison– as both had stated in the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, respectively– held that the states were each sovereign nations unto themselves. Lincoln, meanwhile, claimed that “the Union” was a single sovereign nation, to which the states were therefore politically subordinate.
This is the sole issue of relevance regarding the War of 1861, to our current situation; for this regards the issue of the supreme nature of national sovereignty of each state, and resultant inviolability. In contrast, the claim of national sovereignty over the states by the Jackson and Lincoln administrations, thus conferred the power to maintain sovereign national integrity over the states. (In contrast, if Lincoln had recognized each state as a sovereign nation unto itself, but commanded invasion and conquest anyway, he would likely have been hanged that day.)
Thus, Lincoln took great pains to establish that the Union was a sovereign nation over the states– particularly in his July 4, 1861 War Address to Congress, where he argued the following:
“Our States have neither more, nor less power, than that reserved to them, in the Union, by the Constitution – no one of them ever having been a State out of the Union. The original ones passed into the Union even before they cast off their British colonial dependence; and the new ones each came into the Union directly from a condition of dependence, excepting Texas. And even Texas, in its temporary independence, was never designated a State. The new ones only took the designation of States, on coming into the Union, while that name was first adopted for the old ones, in, and by, the Declaration of Independence. Therein the “United Colonies” were declared to be “Free and Independent States”; but, even then, the object plainly was not to declare their independence of one another, or of the Union; but directly the contrary, as their mutual pledge, and their mutual action, before, at the time, and afterwards, abundantly show.”
Of course, this is an outright lie– as the express statements of the Declaration itself prove beyond any doubt:
“We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.”
Clearly, the Founders intended for each state to be a sovereign nation unto itself; they did not intend to form a single nation to which the states would be subordinate.
Nor was there any need to “declare their independence of one another, or of the Union,” as Lincoln waffles above; for indeed, no such “dependence” had ever existed in a national sense– or indeed could exist, since each colony was already thus dependent to the nation of Great Britain, and therefore this “union” among the colonies was obviously therefore less than a national association among them.
Finally, this union was never, conversely to Lincoln’s claim, made otherwise; on the contrary, again, the colonies (plural) were declared free and independent states (plural)– not a free and independent state (singular): i.e. each colony was declared a free and independent state (i.e. a sovereign nation) unto itself.
But consider how Lincoln has no shame, as he continued in his War Address:
“The express plighting of faith, by each and all of the original thirteen, in the Articles of Confederation, two years later, that the Union shall be perpetual, is most conclusive.”
The Articles of Confederation, however, are where Lincoln puts his entire size-16 foot in his mouth; for they expressly contradict this claim holding instead in Article II. that “Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.”
If anything were “most conclusive,” it would be that; of course, Lincoln conveniently skipped over this part. Thus this proves that Lincoln simply “cherry-picked” whatever evidence he pleased, to commit an illegal and international coup d’etat in order to invade, butcher and conquer sovereign nations under false claim of national authority– no differently from Saddam Hussein’s invasion and conquest of Kuwait, which which Hussein similarly claimed to be a subordinate territory of the nation of Iraq.
If Kuwait had been truly a subordinate territory of the nation of Iraq, then no nation would have questioned Hussein’s national authority to prevent it from disobeying national law. On the contrary, the sole justification for the Gulf War, was Kuwait’s recognized sovereignty as a separate nation.
Similarly, therefore, this is the sole issue which absolutely justified every state’s unilateral act of secession from the United States: i.e. that each state was a sovereign nation, as recognized under International Law via the Paris Peace Treaty of 1783. There, each of the 13 states was individually recognized as a sovereign nation unto itself– particularly under Article I:
“His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.”
Thus, existing sovereign nations recognized the national sovereignty of each of the individual states– and thus officially made each colony a sovereign nation unto itself, by international law and recognition. (Likewise, the newer states held sovereignty under the right of popular democratic self-government– the same basis by which each of the original 13 states originally claimed independence from Great Britain.) As Madison likewise observed in his 1800 Report on the Virginia Resolutions:
“…the term “states” … means the people composing those political societies, in their highest sovereign capacity… in that sense the Constitution was submitted to the “states;” in that sense the “states” ratified it; and in that sense of the term “states,” they are consequently parties to the compact from which the powers of the federal government result…. The states, then, being the parties to the constitutional compact, and in their sovereign capacity, it follows of necessity that there can be no tribunal, above their authority, to decide, in the last resort, whether the compact made by them be violated; and consequently, that, as the parties to it, they must themselves decide, in the last resort, such questions as may be of sufficient magnitude to require their interposition.”
In sum, there is no question that each state is a fully sovereign nation unto itself, by law– and therefore fully autonomous against all global authority; and for this reason, this national sovereignty was suppressed from history, by the federal regime. For by distorting history in order to confer national authority, the regime thereby validated its current position of absolute power over the states. As Madison continued:
“However true, therefore, it may be, that the judicial department is, in all questions submitted to it by the forms of the Constitution, to decide in the last resort, this resort must necessarily be deemed the last in relation to the authorities of the other departments of the government; not in relation to the rights of the parties to the constitutional compact, from which the judicial, as well as the other departments, hold their delegated trusts. On any other hypothesis, the delegation of judicial power would annul the authority delegating it; and the concurrence of this department with the others in usurped powers, might subvert forever, and beyond the possible reach of any rightful remedy, the very Constitution which all were instituted to preserve.”
For this reason, it is absolutely imperative to restore truth to history, that each state is a sovereign nation; until then, the federal government– and the mob that elects it– will remain at liberty to do anything it wishes to any state… or the people thereof. However if the people learn that each state is a sovereign nation by law, then they will then be armed with the legal ammunition to resist federal encroachments of their fundamental sovereignty.
Anyway, in light of the above, here’s the legal brass-tacks of how a state could– and would– secede:
The state simply informs the federal government in Washington D.C. that it is a sovereign nation by law, and by the supreme will of its sovereign people, is exercising its sovereign power to alter its itnernational relationship with the federal United States, withdrawing from that Union and re-delegating power from the federal government to its state government.
Unlike in 1865, the federal government could no longer trump up bogus national authority over the states by simply suspending habeas corpus, suppressing the truth, and spewing out lies– like Saddam Hussein did when conquering Kuwait; on the contrary, the technological innovations of cyberspace, satellite television and other clobal communications-media would preclude the 1865 fedeal-suppression counterparts by which people were jailed, tortured and killed without trial for simply crossing the federal juggernaut’s path.
On the contrary, this assertion of national sovereignty by the state, would have to be properly answered by the fed; and they would HAVE no valid counter to it, for the facts prove that each state is a proper sovereign nation unto itself– regardless of its brute-force *suppression* of this rightful sovereignty for the past 150 years, and resulting hostile occupation.
Now, all the other recognized nations of the world would be watching, and their OWN sovereignty would be forfeit if they did not properly obey the law of sovereignty, by which the people of each individual state rightfully held sovereign-nation status under international law.
In other words, if they looked the other way while the federal government and other states invaded via brute force, then they would be forfeiting their own sovereignty in the process; since national sovereignty only exists by virtue of international recognition– and again, each state was recognized as a sovereign nation unto itself by right of popular self-government via its people, ever since 1783.
While Britain and France may have thus sold out the states’ sovereignty in 1861, their sovereignty thus became likewise forfeit, as they reaped the whirlwind of the Third Reich in consequence; for the War Between the States led to American expansionism (coyly titled “American *Exceptionalism*) as a thinly-veiled attempt to expand the American and British empires, resulting in blowback via the Boshevik and Nazi regimes in Russia and Germany, as well as military expansionism in Japan; contrary to popular history, nothing happens in a vacuum, particularly during an era of global mobility.
In any event, the rise of global media would circumvent any option for the federal government to again suppress such an assertion, based on repeated false claims of national authority over the state(s); rather, the fed would be unable to properly authorize any attempt to STOP such a secession, and so would be forced to stand down by simple international sovereignty, and draw up treaties with the state in question via meeting with the state’s ambassadors.
You are all forgetting that majority of the nations across the globe will not do trade with a seceded state due to trade agreements with the federal US government. The federal government will use it’s influence and power to impose trade sanctions, and that seceded state will quickly be stuck between a rock and a hard place.
kevintheelder ; The said point is you say Leave DC to all the sorry Bastards that are ruling the Country… but think about it… anyone who is in Politics in Washington DC are living in VA and comuting to DC day in and day out…. so any hardship you want to envoke on “DC” would most likely harm those hard working people that are serving those pices of crap that dont deserve the jobs they have and when they will be voted out of every hard working adult will have to pay for their unerned ( Sorry I feel once your fired you are fired… you shoulnd be paid till you die… I had to go out and find another job and didnt get paid a check after I walked out that door… ) yet I still have to pay for Ever SOB that ever held office… WHAT IS WRONG with this picture!!!!!
@David, thats y any state that does receed just need to ask support from a rival nation such as china or russia cuz they dont give a sh*t about are sanctions XD, like we did from france when we fought the british empire all those years ago.
I have not seen any mention of the 10th amendment, if the U.S. Congress did in fact pass any law making secession illegal, that would be in direct conflict with the 10th amendment.
The Amish if I’m not mistaken don’t allow help from our government even though they are apart of the United States. If they can survive with out federal involvement why can’t an entire state?
I think WV would like to join texas if anything every did happen and we actually was able to become a “free” society.