A friend’s blog is getting into a pretty heady spiritual-political discussion, and it’s making me think.
Republicans and Democrats are so weird when it comes to Christianity.
Republicans want to legislate moral issues, government imposed restrictions on abortion or gay marriage. The Bible says it’s wrong, so we make it illegal. Democrats, on the other hand, want to leave those moral choices to the people.
Democrats want to legislate social justice issues, government imposed help for the poor and the oppressed. The Bible says to help the poor, so we make a welfare system. Republicans, on the other hand, want to leave helping the poor up to the people.
Is it just me, or are those two stances really contradictory and just plain odd? Maybe I should have just gone to bed a long time ago.
Update: More than four years after writing this post I wrote another post about disagreeing well. That post linked to a survey that asks you questions and tells you where you stand politically. I think taking that test and understanding where you and those you disagree with stand can go along way towards disagreeing well. For me, it helps explain the differences between Republicans and Democrats.
Heh, well some would say the Dems want to legislate morality as well, but I think that’s a problem to take up with both parties.
In all honesty, it’s not too hard to fathom. Some jokers like to point out that you might be a Republican if you are against abortion and are for the death penalty, etc. Trying to understand how people or parties get there isn’t easy, and it hurts your head: just try to think through your own beliefs better.
Aww… see, I was hoping we could isolate this to one blog so my head didn’t have to hurt when I went to every blog I normally read. :-)
Still, it’s easy to agree that these are interesting and complex issues. I get a headache thinking about it.
The difficulty is that whether or not we’d like to admit it, we are always legislating some kind of morality or perspective on life. If you think abortion is wrong, then your moral compass of “abortion is wrong” is going to dictate your laws. If you think abortion is okay, then your moral compass of “abortion is okay” is going to dictate your laws.
I always get ticked off when people give me the “I don’t think we should legislate morality” argument. Because the decisions of a government always reflect some kind of life-perspective. Maybe they should say, “I don’t think we should legislate Christian morality” in which case I’d be more willing to listen. Maybe.
Not beliving in God is still a religion.
That’s my point Steph, both Democrats and Republicans try to legislate morality. One relates to the poor and another relates to life. I’m curious as to why they’re so divergent.
And it’d be interesting to argue your claim that atheism is a religion. The dictionary gives two definitions for religion, the first involving the worship of God or gods, the second being a specific system of beliefs. I suppose an atheist might fall under the second definition, but it seems a bit contrary to my understanding of religion. Having a religion usually involves some sort of action. I suppose having a set of beliefs about how you don’t think there is a religion could be a religion, but that’s pretty simplified. It’s kind of like calling sitting on the couch and starring at the wall a sport. It’s a sedentary activity completely the opposite of a sport.
I suppose that’s a post for another day.
what is the difference between morality and christian morality, all moral issues have christian foundation, just like our nation was. another comment on the joke about abortion (you might be a republican if you vote against abortion but for capital punishment. i must stress that there is a difference between the two deaths, the criminal deserves death but the baby does not.
Hi!
My name is Tammy and I am a Christian, a Southern Baptist, a public school teacher, and a DEMOCRAT! I do not believe these “I am’s” contradict each other.
I do not believe in abortion, but I serve a mighty God, and I believe he is concerned about a lot more in this country than just abortion.
If you read the Gospels, you will be hardpressed to find much in common between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Republican Party platform. This was not always true, but since Eisenhower’s time, the Republican Party has changed drastically. The really troubling thing is, that many Christians are so taken in by the “politically religious”, that they hand their vote over to this party without blinking an eye. Shouldn’t those who name the name of Christ be concerned about the same people that Christ was concerned about? If we do not believe in what He believed in, why do we believe in Him?
It is increasingly uncomfortable to attend church when some of the prayers and sermons rival the best paid political advertisements! Do you think God honors that? I don’t!
Why aren’t we encouraged to pray during election time? Is it because our pastors and the “politically religious” know that when real Christians pray for guidance during election time, the outcome might not turn out to be what would benefit their own agenda? Aren’t we asked to boldly approach the throne of grace? When we accept pamphlets from the “politically religious”, when we listen to prayers in our churches that do not ask for wisdom during election time and that His will be done, but beseech God to let everyone vote for President Bush, when we listen to sermons that deal mainly with abortion and homosexuality and nothing else, we have to ask ourselves the question – where are we? In church worshipping the living God, or are we at a political rally worshipping a man?
I believe that it is bibically immoral for us to know that there are poor, hungry, sick, homeless, jobless, handicapped, etc. out there and only pay lip service to them. I believe that it is biblically immoral for us to treat them as if their problems were all their own fault. If Christ’s churches were doing Christ’s work, these problems would not be as serious as they are today. Yet we get all sanctimonious when the government steps in and tries to help these problems with social programs. The first thing out of our mouths is BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL! or maybe TAX and SPEND! Well, someones heart needs to bleed. And we call ourselves Christians.
I believe that there are those “politically religious” out there for whom the abortion issue is just a smoke screen. I believe that for them the most attractive aspect of the Republican Party is it’s fiscal policies. These “politically religious” stand in churches and assure God that everything they have is really His, but they live their life by the motto: “What’s mine is mine”!
I am convinced that if Jesus Christ came back today and decided to run for office, he would not get elected. I am convinced that this is because many Christians would not vote for Him. He would want to help too many people that we don’t want to associate with, and besides, it might cost us money in the long run, taxes you know.
Finally, repeat after me, “GOD is not spelled GOP!”
Thanks for giving me a chance to voice my opinion!
GOD BLESS
Wow. I agree with every word Tammy Jo writes. I grew up (and still am) a Methodist (a cousin of Souther Baptists). The more I became aware of politics, the more puzzled I became that the GOP is just considered the Christian party. And lots of Christians who know nothing about politics vote Republican just because people at their church do.
The difference between the moralities that Democrats and Republicans are trying to legislate is this. Republicans are often more concerned with personal morality, and Republican Christians are very concerned with maintaining “the Law” (Christian teachings). They view Christianity as something that must be defended against the invading heathen world.
Democrats are more concerned with society’s morals… as in is our society fair to everyone. Keep in mind, not to long ago the idea that Black people should be allowed to vote was a CRAZY LIBERAL COMMUNIST PINKO idea. And today, it is still the same conservative establishment in charge of the GOP. They have simply grown more sophisticated with their oppression (like efforts to supress the black vote in Florida and other places).
Look at the Bible. The main people Jesus critized were the pharisees. The pharisees were the religious establishment of the day who were very concerned with upholding “the law,” but they had become hardened and cold to the needs of real people. Read what Jesus said to them.
Who are the pharisees of today? Who is extremely concerned with defending the laws of good morality but care nothing about people who are in pain and in need?
Working for peace
Fighting Poverty
Working for equality
Healthcare for disadvantaged
Cherishing the environment
Valuing the forgotten
Am I describing Christianity or Democratic ideals? BOTH!! EVEN if the Republican Christians are right about abortion and gay marriage (their only two issues), these above things far outweigh them.
About abortion though, think about this… Democrats address the causes for the DEMAND for abortion: unplanned pregnancy, lack of sex education/contraception, poverty, hopelesness, lack of childcare for working women… the list goes on and on and on.
Christians should focus on the demand for abortion, not the supply of safe abortions. If a woman doesn’t want to have a baby, she won’t have it. She’ll drive to Mexico or try to abort her pregnancy herself.
I just started a student organization at the Univ. of Florida called Gator Christian Democrats. If any of you are in the area (gainesville), give us a look. in the meantime, check out http://www.gatorchristiandemocrats.blogspot.com
Thank God some people who call themselves christian are not just spewing more right-wing evangelical dogma. Conservatism is anti-christian , anti-creation and anti-human. There is absolutely nothing in New Testament ideals that speaks to the current mentality of American popular Christianity. Why aren’t we getting more dialogue from the millions of Christians who believe this? If ever true Christianity was needed in the world to shine it’s light before men, that time is now.
The thing is, you cant call your self a Christian and be a democrat. Abortion, and gay marrige are very un christian but democrats for the most part support it yet still claim to be christians. Both partys have there faults but from a Christian stand point you have to be republican, i admit that republicans make mistakes but so do democrats just like every human in the world but the difference is republicans admit when there wrong while democrats will say what ever it takes to get them out of a mess they caused. I am only 15 but even a 5 year old with a sense of morals can see what party could help him more. Many people who might read this will disagree on what i say but homestly if u do and you think democrats are good then you better have a long talk with God and use the brain he gave you to decide what is best for the U.S. If you dont agree with every thing i wrote read just one page in the bible then compare it to politics and see what party matchs closer to it.
First of all, atheism is almost impossible. By its very definition, one would have to not believe in every tenet, every idea, every moral code of every religion in the whole world… seems kinda hard to truly be an atheist. Everyone worships something- whether it is themselves or a god is the actual question. Second of all, I agree that everyone legislates morality. There has to be some sort of moral code in the world. If not then whatever someone considers right is right. I may enjoy killing people and since I believe it’s right, then it is. Our country has relied too much on moral relativism as a means of getting away with wrong things, but I think that it’s a sham. Ask anyone if they believe HItler was wrong or whether Saddam Hussein was wrong in his torture and murder of millions and they will tell you yes. Hitler and Hussein can’t be wrong if there is no moral code. Sorry… i wandered onto this site randomly and decided to inject my 2 cents… i’ll be interested as to what people have to say
My comment following the last statement by Victor would be that even if the criminal deserves death, according to the bible we are called to find a way to forgive because revenge will come from the lord who decides how the perspective crimimal will pay whether emotional/physical. If one sows bad seeds, one will reap bad seeds. Just because our world has come up with a system of punishment, it still does not mean that it is right to kill someone because they killed someone. In my mind, I feel that the death penalty is worthy in certain situations, and this is why I am glad that I am not the person charged with deciding upon whether or not someone will receive the death penalty. Abortion, however no matter how you slice it is Murder.
The Democratic Party is in favor and supports granting two men who orally copulate and sodomize each other the right to adopt children. The greatest influence in a child’s life is his or her parents. Can you imagine Jesus supporting groups that would allow the greatest influence in a child’s life teaching them that the homosexual lifestyle is healthy and just different. Democrats also support the right of a pregnant women to walk into a clinic and have her 21 week unborn child’s brain stem cut and call it a womens right to healthcare. Democrats support teaching children in our public schools that the gay lifestyle is just different and not wrong. This clearly conflicts with the Bible. Democrats support the removal and banishment of public exhibits of the Ten Commandments in the name of Separation of Church and State. Democrats support the removal of the mention God from the pledge of alligence. All of these issues go against a Christian’s core beliefs and certainly go against spreading the good news of Jesus Christ. So called Christian Democrats want us to believe that they don’t wear their religion on their sleeve. A true Christian has no choice, it is simply who they are. Becoming born again is a life changing experience. It is not a cloak that you can put on and take off when entering the polling booth. Therefore, a true Christian could not support any organization which adopted these policies. I can respect a gay atheist man who supports these views, he’s not pretending to be something he’s not. However, I have no respect for a man like Howard Dean or Jesse Jackson who call themselves Christians but espouses these views. Christian Democrats cannot have it both ways. Morality is not how much a certain party spends on social welfare programs; and whatever the amount should be is open for debate and does not conflict with a Christians core beliefs. Morality is not how much money you give to the poor. Morality is not what reason the government gave to go to war. The Democrats are clearly trying to shift the definition of morality to appeal more to religious Americans and that’s fine for Democrats if they want to do that. Christian’s don’t look to Democrat’s to see what is moral or not. They look to the word of God. The Bible is clear, Sodomy and homosexuality is living in sin and not open for debate or interpretation. Murdering unborn children clearly conflicts with the Christian way of life. Christian’s primary purpose for living on earth is to share the gospel of Jesus Christ to others. How does teaching children in public schools that the gay lifestyle is healthy and normal promoting the gospel? How does removing the Ten Commandments from the front of a court house help in spreading the good news of Jesus? How does removing prayer in school and the mention of Jesus Christ help share the gospel to others. The answer is simple, it doesn’t. It goes completely against the primary purpose for Christian’s on earth. All of these views are held and supported by the Democratic party. A true Christian cannot simply look past this because the Democrats offer a better prescription drug plan over the Republicans. What we do about Social Security, Healthcare and Welfare are all open for debate and what it really comes down to is which party is willing to fund more money for any particular program. You are absolutely dillusional if you think those issues have anything to do with your primary purpose as a Christian’s. A Christian’s purpose is to share your faith with others and to spread the gospel around the world, period. Removing the Ten Commandments, the mention of God, the mention of Jesus Christ, the killing of unborn children, promoting homosexuality are in direct conflict with that primary purpose. You must decide which side your going to take. The side that promotes policies that follow the teachings of Jesus Christ or the side that promotes policies that conflict with the teachings of Jesus Christ. If your still confused on which party to vote for in 2008, your probably too wrapped up in your liberal causes to have much time for Jesus Christ in your life anyway. One last question! WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? Can you honestly see Jesus Christ voting for a party that protects abortion rights and the adoption rights of homosexual’s and removing the Ten Commandments from the front of a court house and then say well at least i’m being tolerant and the Democrat’s do have better plan on Social Security. If the answer is yes, well my friend, you don’t know Jesus Christ! You only think you do.
I am a Christian who is also a registered Democrat. In many evangelical churches today and I suspect many conservative Catholic circles as well, being a Democrat is seen about as positively as owning a strip club. Christians need to recognize that no one political party has the right answers on questions of morality. I think that Democrats take the more Christian approach in dealing with the less fortunate. There are numerous references in the Bible to helping to poor and healing the sick. Cutting funding for the medically needy is not the most Christ-like approach in my view. Trickle down economics advocated by the Republican Party is basically social Darwinism. Isn’t it ironic that many who object to teaching Darwinism as fact in the science classroom will enthuasiastically buy into a party that makes “survival of the fittest” its economic credo ? At the same time, I think that many Christians have some legitimate complaints about the direction that the Democratic Party has gone. Supporting late term abortion and affirming homosexuality as a positive lifestyle (through allowing gay marriage or civil unions with tax benefits) incompatible with Christianity (and most other religious traditions) although I do oppose discrimination against gays and lesbians in the workplace and housing. Democrats need to be more receptive to those who are pro-life and believe in traditional marriage.
Am a proud conservative-republican. The democratic-party are all liberials, they are not against abortion, stem-cell research and same-sex marriage. Senator Barack Obama, the presidential candidate said and i quote “The repulicans are losing a firm grip to faith” and he is wrong.Is it that the democrats are shy to talk about their faith. Back to Barack Obama’s coment, Mr. Senator sorry to let you know that, the repulicans STILL, have a firm grip on faith, Our fore-fathers built this country through conservative values and we should make them proud by mantaining those conservative values.
I think the way the republicans make laws is completely screwed up. Why are there laws based on one religion’s teachings, when, good morning sunshine!, you can be any religion you want! It’s completely unfair and unconstitutional. And the fact that they screw up our whole damn world doesn’t help their case. Yes, democrats do tax more, but in case you missed it, democrats do that to fix our economy, to have universal health care. We whine and bitch and moan about how we should have universal health care, but are too lazy to do anything about, or to pay for it. Oh, and by the way, Christianity is easily just like scientology. Yes, I’m a Christian myself, but I’m not very religious. When you think about, it can totally be an early form of scientology. It’s based on one book, and has obsessive followers. The only difference is that it came 2000 years earlier, so it’s more accepted. Regardless of religion, when you like at proven scientific facts, and then see Christianity, the thought of 1 guy making the whole damn world, and everythng on it, is bullshit! They say “God will end the world when he wants to,” He never set a date for that, just so you know. Our world is so fucked up, I’m sure he’s closing the book. Saying abortion and gay marriage is illegal is like saying you can’t have cheese and meat at the same meal. That’s a Jewish rule, and it’s not in place! Yes, our country may have been built on Christianity, but so mazny things are different. 3 things:Web, iPhone, Cars. They never thought of these things in their dreams! Our world’s different, so basing everything on 1 religion that might be based on a fiction book is bullshit. “Elisha”, remember that there are Buddhists, Hindus, Jewish, and Muslims, and many other religions, not just Christianity, and it’s getting really weird. Who would Jesus bomb? Which animal would Jesus shoot if only for amusement? How different would you have to be for Jesus to treat you like shit? I never thought I would see the day when people have a bible in one hand, and a torch in other. If you’re not hurting anyone else physically, emotionally, psychologically, or mentally, what s wrong with it? Why is 2 men or women marrying each other so bad? Bringing religion into this isn’t valid, and is unconstitutional, by the way, so these laws are bullshit!
Regarding the posting by Anonymous on Oct 2..
This person is obviously not a Christian, so to all of you non-Christians out there, please don’t judge all of us by the few that are Christian in name only.
If Jesus held political views, what party would he belong to?
Why are religion and politics so influential to one another? It seems to be the case so often, both in the days of Jesus and today. It’s just mankind getting in the way of himself. To view it in a more truthful light it makes sense (of our own understanding and intellect) for ‘religion’ and politics to be so parallel and influential to each other, but in God truth, ‘religion’ and spiritual truth are opposites. Jesus’s biggest opponents (and the ones who killed him) were the super religious elite. So it’s nothing new today either with the super religious (not the super spiritual) being so bound up in the political arena of the ‘world’ today. Jesus was sent with one objective in mind to save us from ourselves, and this is the only thing that really matters in life. Our supposed religious leaders (Pat Robinson, Rick Warren, Jesse Jackson , Al Sharpton) should not get involved or express their political views, doing so is evidence of their lack of relationship with God
.
Just to clarify I’m not republican nor democrat, not a capitalist or a socialist. I am a man of God that believes each side has valid views, and each side has selfish agendas. The political system is made of man, embedded with flaws throughout like a cancer. Luckily God still selects those that are put into power (John 19:11) no matter how good or evil (conservative or liberal) they may be viewed by man, all to fulfill God’s good and perfect will. My personal battle is to ignore the bombardment of political talk, and to avoid conforming to the pattern of this world. To seek God and God only with all my heart mind and soul and to love my brother as myself. Isn’t this the greatest command?
When Jesus was asked this question by the religious elite (Matt 22:36) his answer really threw them off as they were asking specifically which of the commands handed down in the judaic law. The law that Jesus said was put into place to condemn us. Since Jesus didn’t come to condemn but to save his answer while immersed in truth, was contrary to where the religious elites mindset was and still is today, which is contrary to the will of God, and pointed straight towards man’s law and mans will, the very will that will keep us confined to condemnation. It’s a battle for all mankind (more specifically Christians) to separate the two and it’s been that way from day 1 when God made two trees the Tree of life and the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Only one gives life, the other causes confusion and controversy.
Why today, do we still continue to eat from this tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because as humans our sin that is buried so deep in our core causes us to be so self-righteous and to love controversy and to argue matters of this world instead of focusing us on the one tree that God intended, the tree of life. Where the only fruit it yields is selflessness and peace. Why as a true Christian do we burden ourselves with manmade systems? Why do we spend so much time and effort thinking our views and vote really will make a difference? To be patriotic Americans? Is it better to be Patriotic or Spiritual? Are the leaders that express their political views so spiritual (religious) that they have such a good handle on their holiness that they can now focus their efforts on changing the world? Steering its course to their own will? Even if they think it’s in line with God’s will? How can they be so arrogant to think that their influence on the political arena can change what God has already set in motion? How can we be so also?
But since we are in this world and we are human, let’s look at it from a humanly perspective without any consideration that God ever set Christians apart from this world.
From a Democratic point of view; Republicans (generally capitalist) tend to be right wing religious zealouts (much like Paul was when he was killing Christians), doing so in the name of God! Republicans are ok with Capital punishment “Kill them if they deserve it” based on social standards (not necessarily God’s standards), Republicans are ok with a great divide among the rich and the poor. With the rich privileged and the poor suppressed. With one side forcing a unequal division of wealth even at the cost of the government and the people. (War that benefits corporations that are tied closely with those leaders in charge – ‘oil industry’) Democrats (generally socialist) are considered fair, ethical and for the people, using government if necessary to launch their own agendas.
From a Republican point of view; Republicans tend to be religious (Christians), upstanding citizens that are patriotic, that love God and love the American way of self responsibility, and willing to use the Government to launch their own agendas, if necessary. Democrats are viewed as immoral worldly people. A people that don’t think twice at killing unborn babies, but willing to spend tax payers dollars keeping a child molester in prison versus killing him off as quickly as possible in the name of saving tax payer dollars. Democrats are willing to give handouts to anyone who asks even if at the costs of the government and the people.
So which side is right? I say neither, as both sides are filled with sinful humans that only see the world in a worldly light. Both sides put the true God in a box only to use him when needed or to hide him away from their selfish deeds. Both parties have been so closely tied with religious parties that either political party now seems to be a religious entity of their own. With the republican party being saturated with super religious Christian and Jewish influence. And Democrats having more liberal religious views thus commonly referred to as generally Atheist, much like Jesus was considered by the super religous since he was seen as (and considered a blasphemer) not adhering to Judaic law even though he adhered to and fulfilled the law to the ‘T’.
Today if you are not a Republican then you’re not a true Christian and if you are not a Christian you must be a democrat. Much like man has always been for thousands of years, man wants to take Gods virtues and make them man made laws, contrary to Jesus teachings (like man-made laws are going to be adhered to more seriously). Or is it so man can then dish out his own punishment versus leaving that up to God? Republicans want to legislate moral issues, government imposed restrictions on abortion or gay marriage, keeping prayer in schools and God in the pledge of allegiance. If the Bible says it’s wrong, we should make it illegal. Democrats, on the other hand, want to leave those moral choices to the people.
Democrats want to legislate social justice issues, government imposed help for the poor and the oppressed. If the Bible says to help the poor, we should make a welfare system. Republicans, on the other hand, want to leave helping the poor up to the people. Let them fend for themselves.
So what we end up developing is arguments (one good and one evil) on both sides and mutual demonization towards each party. With the Republicans not caring about the poor and the Democrats not being moral humans and ok with abortions. Sounds like what Jesus set out to teach us to be? Not quite… But we Christians lack faith, lose focus and always have to delve into worldly affairs.
But abortion is evil? It’s our Christian duty to fight it and to do good! Let’s make it law that you can’t have an abortion!! But the poor are suppressed that is evil!! It’s our duty to help and to do good. Let’s make it law to have programs to help them! Both sides want to make laws, to give their parties more power to give man more power, to allow man to decide what is good and what is evil, to legislate it and control it takes away the control from God, and has us as humans getting our fill of fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
If Jesus came to America for his ministry today, he would have hung out with the democrats because they are the immoral people that are the sickest and need healing the most. (Matt 9:12). However it would have been the republicans that he had the most conflict with. It would have been the super religious self- righteous republicans that would put Jesus to death. After all Republicans are for capital punishment and it would be used today in the same way the Jews used the romans capital punishment to kill Jesus. Gods will for Jesus could have not been fulfilled in a nation that was for one, more liberal, and two that did not have a system that supported capital punishment. So it’s clear who would have been the party to scream crucify him crucify him!! God never changes and neither does mans sinful nature.
So what if your tax dollars happen to go towards something that might feed a percentage of people that might very well be able to feed themselves otherwise. It’s not about where your dollars goes as much as it is where your heart is in the act or giving. Tithing is the same, it’s not so much how the church uses your money but the act of your giving.
Most claim it’s better to sacrifice a few lives in war to ensure the security of the masses, but on the same hand the same people can’t see that it’s better to give to help the masses of a given group (the poor) even if a few abuse the system.
Your money is going to go somewhere, the government under any party is going to spend your money somewhere, whether under a democratic party it will lean less towards war and more towards bigger government programs for the people. In a republican lead party it’s going to go less towards social programs and more towards select private corporations and the elite. As it has the last 8 years. Corporations like Haliburton or Exxon that benefits from war, and make a few rich out of the wallets of the working class. I seriously doubt in a democratic lead administration that they would ever get away with a social medicine program or any type of welfare program that costs half a trillion dollars as the war has. You would hear “I am not paying to enable lazy people – i.e. the niggers)”. But the same people are ok struggling to fill their tanks, pay their power bills, feed their kids while claiming “War thus our security and freedom is worth it”. Whether a half trillion dollar war that takes ten’s of thousands of dollars out of each of our pockets in the form of taxes, higher fuel costs, higher food prices, or a billion dollar welfare program that costs of thousands of dollars every year in taxes, one way or the other your money is going to get spent.
But as Jesus said. (Matt 22:21) “Give to Caesar what is Caesars give to God what is God’s”, again Jesus was teaching where our focus should be God’s will not the World’s will. And to also submit (no matter what party we are lead by) to government authority. As a faithful Christian we should have the faith that nothing the government can enact or legislate is going to get in the way of God having a relationship with the people that wants to have a relationship with him. Nor is any legislation the government can enact or legislate is going to cause anyone to love God that otherwise would not. Neither party , or no law is more power than the power of God’s love.
So for the people that waste their efforts trying to keep prayer in school or God in the pledge of allegiance, or to try and ban a book from schools, or from store shelves in the name of Morals, or of Religion or of God, don’t be so self righteous to the point of thinking that something you push for is going to allow God to better commune with his people. It’s those people that think God needs their help and that help God out of his box like he can’t do it himself even if he was truly in a box. Believe me you aren’t holy enough to help God to fulfill his will in this world. In the same way your vote (nor your opinion) in the political world isn’t going to deter the choice God has already made for who he is going to put in the position of leadership in this country. Whether it be a supposed Christian, a supposed Muslim, or the supposed Anti-christ. Any of which God chooses to put into power, again would be for his own purpose.
In the same way most Christians view the Jews as Evil and stiff necked people that killed Jesus, the same views are held towards potential political leaders even as far as calling them the Anti-Christ. And that we better not vote for them. Like our vote can thwart or delay God’s plan. It’s those people calling potential leaders the anti-christ in an attempt to demonize them with the hopes that less people might vote for them, It’s those people that Jesus would have said “Get behind me Satan” as he did Peter when Peter told Jesus that he would never let anything happen to him and that nobody would be killing Jesus. Peter was trying to intervene in God’s will just as those that hold views that a potential leader is anti-christ and thinking hopefully he is not elected lest we face the end of the world. I say “Thank God for allowing Jesus to die, and thank God for allowing the Anti-Christ to come to power.” Both cases being topics of rejoice for the true children of God.
If Jesus had a political opinion it would be neither, His focus was on Gods true will not that of man. And if we are supposed to be like Jesus then we should focus our own efforts on the things of God. And leave the political arena to the pagans. Nothing we as man can do or influence can change the path of Gods will. As Christians we cannot pool together and change the course of Gods will. But we can pool together to help one another, hold each other accountable and to assist each other in our walk with God. Nothing man can do can change Gods plan for the world no matter how holy we are or perceive ourselves to be.
Going to Church on Sunday, and getting our Jesus once a week, maybe twice counting Wednesday, (or not at all) leaves us plenty of time to worry about the things of the world, and to get stirred up about the politics of this world. However as true Christians we should do as Joshua 1:8 says, “Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.”
Day and night 24/7. That is what it takes for us humans to not fall into the pattern of this world, and that’s what it takes for the arrogant to be humbled. How then do we have so much time to dwell in the matters of the world?
I wanted to thank GP for eloquently explaining what I have had a hard time putting into words. You’re right on the money, dude. Amen.
To GP:
You’re twisting things here. It isn’t that the Democratic party so much favors or supports that, but chooses to leave the decision up to the person, with the faith the God will convict them and not some law, some social standard or some teaching by man that it is right or wrong. The greatest influence in a childs life is that sweet soft voice of the Holy Spirit. Not some parent born into the same sin as each other human being so don’t give yourself or parents more credit than you give an all powerful God. This is why so many people that have grown up in dysfunctional families end up becoming God fearing, God Loving individuals, because it doesn’t take laws, or teaching in schools by man what is right or wrong. Both parties should leave teaching what is right or wrong up to God and his Holy Spirit. Man is not a good teacher of right and wrong since theday they ate from that dreaded tree.
Ok Dems support abortion you say, so Republicans support the capital punishment, The same system that killed Jesus. It’s not up to man to decide who lives or who dies. We are all murders, “Sin is crouching at our door and ‘we’ must master it.”
What conflicts with the Bible is everything man does, no matter the party.
Jesus supported separation of Church and state. Two totally different worlds. One dying and the other eternal. They should never be mixed, they are two different worlds like night and day, water and oil they don’t mix. There will always be conflict and since nothing in the core or man is good or right, nothing in man is pure God truth, there is always room for argument. Jesus came with pure truth and nothing else mattered.
A True Christian would not confirm to the patterns of this world. A True Christian would let the dead bury the dead (man and politics are dying). A True Christian doesn’t have the time nor the willingness to vote for a man in a manmade system. I vote for no man but I vote that all men seeks and finds God with all their heart mind and soul. And a True Christian that is seeking with all his being doesn’t have the resources to fool with the things of man. (Unless he has achieved such holiness and righteousness that he can afford to put his relationship with God to the Side and deal with the problems of the world as Jesus did. SO if you have achieved Jesus status then great, but if you are still trying then I suggest you keep your focus on that.
So you said “I can respect a gay atheist man who supports these views, he’s not pretending to be something he’s not. However, I have no respect for a man like Howard Dean or Jesse Jackson who call themselves Christians but espouses these views. ”
Or John MCcain who cheated on his Wife and married his mistress (only months after) the exposure of his affair. Ok, OK there is forgiveness , but all men need it not just the Democrats.
“And that’s fine for Democrats to do that” since we Republicans do it ALL the time.
They look to the word of God. The Bible is clear, Sodomy and homosexuality is living in sin and not open for debate or interpretation. (All sin weighs the same as your anger or frustration even if it is in the name of God) Murdering unborn children clearly conflicts with the Christian way of life. (And so does supporting Capital punishment for any man whether young , mid aged or old.) Christian’s primary purpose for living on earth is to share the gospel of Jesus Christ to others. (And to vote Republican) How does teaching children in public schools that the gay lifestyle is healthy and normal promoting the gospel? How does removing the Ten Commandments from the front of a court house help in spreading the good news of Jesus? How does removing prayer in school and the mention of Jesus Christ help share the gospel to others. The answer is simple, it doesn’t.
Nor does leaving prayer in school or God in the allegiance or laws that make abortion illegal. Nothing man mandates is going to make man more holy so your efforts to try and help God are futile. He doesn’t need your help to save the world that already happened when Jesus died.
All of these views are held and supported by the Democratic party. A true Christian cannot simply look past this because the Democrats offer a better prescription drug plan over the Republicans. What we do about Social Security, Healthcare and Welfare are all open for debate and what it really comes down to is which party is willing to fund more money for any particular program. You are absolutely dillusional if you think those issues have anything to do with your primary purpose as a Christian’s. A Christian’s purpose is to share your faith with others and to spread the gospel around the world, period. (Wrong … A Christians purposes is to have a relationship with God first and foremost) His command is to share the gospel not to legislate it).
Jesus wouldn’t vote, He has his fathers purpose in mind as you should also.
I am an Indepedent Christian (with the exception of doing God’s will of course). Politically I am a moderate although I staunchly pro-life on the abortion issues. I believe both parties have a mix of doing God’s will and their own will. For instance Republicans fight hard against abortion and gay marriage (which is God’s will) while at the same time they seek to criminalize those who are here undocumented (many of whom are not criminals or terrorists) while Democrats support a woman’s right to kill her baby or sanction gay marriage (which is not God’s will), the same time they support social programs for the unfortunate and health-care coverage for all. I wonder which party is fulfilling Matthew 25 the most.
Reply to Bryant:
You summed it up perfectly. “What party could help him more”? Reps help self. Dems help others. Jesus would have you help others before self.
If any you bretheren are either Democrat and Republican and have been comsumed by party partisanship, repent! Be either an independent or have no party afflitation at all. The only party we should belong to is the party of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! What party platform did He advocate?
“Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength,” and “Love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:37-39).”
Which party would ‘turn swords into plowshares’ and kick the money changers(lobbyists) out of the temple (govt)?..and be a good steward of the Earth?..that is really the only party worth supporting…unsure it is the Dems but it sure isn’t the Repubs!
Jesus was a long hair homeless wanderer who healed the sick free of charge & had sympathy with the poor..I think he would be fairly disgusted with most Republican policies (I don’t recall him saying anything about abortion!) and his sympathy would be with the Dems or even better the Greens…
Thanks to you all (or most of you) for confirming my hate of Christianity.
If there’s anything you should hate Laura is churchianity, not Jesus.
here is a bit for the Left who think perpetual welfare is their ticket to feeling like a Christian…….Its OK to give help…..but stealing other peoples property to gain votes via perpetual welfare programs does not fit.
The Bible doenst say steal from others to give to Ceasar, so that Ceasar can gain favor and power……..
II Thessalonians 3:6-12, “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.”
This is the simplest answer in the Bible concerning the subject of welfare ……….